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For What It's Worth
<p><font size="3">I have had a few alarming messages in the last day or so that have litterally made me take a step back. If there is one thing bout iMS, we are obviously customer service driven and make changes on the fly to ensure everyone has a great experience here. </font></p><p><font size="3">As a site like this continues to grow, we are going to have growing pains. We will be looking for more moderators to help keep the site at the highest level of integrity as we have always tried to maintain. If you feel you need to belittle a member to bring validity to your point, think again. It ends today. All we are asking is everyone to be professional! We are all in this together and music is not a competition. This site was created to have fun and be drama free! Let's try to hit that mark lol. </font><font size="3">My apologies to those of you who have been targeted by this. It should have been corrected. </font></p><p><font size="3">One of the common themes in the messages I received had to do with song reviews. When you log into your control panel now, everyone will see the below. <br /></font></p><p> </p><p><font size="3"><strong>Song Reviews!</strong> - There has been a lot of discussion about song reviews here at iMS lately. Most artists want their songs reviewed. Some feedback on the work we have done is always nice from our peers. Some artists though just want a place to host their songs so family and friends can listen. The decision is up to you in regards to song reviews though. If you listen to some of the songs on iMS and like them, let the artist know their work was appreciated. If you have advice, please remember to be constructive. Telling someone their song "Sucks" accomplishes nothing. I think of it like a job review. Tell people what they are doing well and then let them know a few things that could be improved upon. Remember, the majority of musicians on here are not professional audio engineers or studio musicians. We all started somewhere so let's help each other grow as artists! </font></p><p><font size="3">I want to thank each of you for being a part of iMusicScene. The caliber of talent on this site amazes me and just continues getting better. If you have a concern, send me a message. </font></p><p><font size="3">Dazed </font></p><p> </p><p><strong><font size="3"><font color="#ff0000">Also we have added two new mods to iMS - Saturated and Artificial Earth have joined the team. Please help me welcome them aboard!</font> </font></strong></p>
Tags
Welcome Sat & JiM ! great additives to fuel'n'drive this site....
where's TSARGOTH?
Actually I just appreciate Nigel for his baking skills
You know the only time the word "sucks" even comes to mind is after I go listen to something I have been working on after listening to other people's music here at IMS. It is when reality hits me right in the face and I realize my music sucks. LOL.
Man I love when a family comes together.
Milillo I think what it comes down to is how we deliver the message if we do no like it. I know not everyone is going to like my music. Not everyone likes The Who, U2 or The Beatles. Usually I can find something positive in any song. If I cab't, I prefer to just walk away from those songs. My wife likes a lot of music that is popular all over the world. I can't stand most of it. These bands however are selling out shows all over the place. Point being? My opinion is just that. An opinion. Apparently a few hundred thousand other people who are buying their music and going to their shows disagree with me.
Mike...
Excellent read as always mate
I think we both know that there can be a clear distinction between a critical review and a "You suck" one.
As an artist uploading,I accept a full range of responses to come.
However,as a human being I also require respect,and that has nothing to do with the quality,or lack of,of my music
Don't like my music,not a prob.
1 why review it,and 2,if you do,you have a complete language system available to use and all I ask is that you respect me as I would you.
Reviewing is seen as something somehow seperate,when it is only another box to express your thoughts in,and as such will reveal a portion of the person behind the words.
I would rather that somehow thought I was a man of mmaners and respect,rather than an archair guru with the inteligence of an ape,unable to express himself beyond the use of crude and ultimately pointless lyrical tirades.
The song remains the same,not one word can change it.
This gentle reminder from Dazed,IMHO,is not about honesty,as so much as it is about respect.
The two should be able to go hand in hand.
So now,let me see....
7 cents....
Mmm,well I make that to be about.....
14 pence that I just spent LOL...
Best wishes to you mate,as always
Nigel.
Mate,it's not IF,but WHEN it happens.
There will always be a VERY small percentage of people who use any facility given to them to dispaly how dumb they can be when they put their limited brain power to it.
My advice to a ny recieving such a review is to report it to you or to one of the mods.
I normaly tell the wise guys that my music sucks,that leaves with nothing to work with
Move on,change nothing,it's what "They" want,have seen it all before,and they always manage to wreck and move on.
Nigel.
Thanks Nigel. I just do not want anyone to ever feel uncomfortable here. I have been on sites like that and I never went back. We should never have that issue here. I hope anyway!
LOL but hardly the case. Your music is exceptional!
Nigel, yes indeed. Respect is something that is something we have attained through intuition as well as conditioning.
Sure, there are uneducated individuals whom roam these hallowed halls of Independent music. And absolutely, those inflicted individuals perspective in what's mature
is not prominent in their perception. But so what!
The fact remains that in percentages they remain at an incredibly low percentage. They are insignificant in this mediums reality.
Certain "accepted" responses indicate a lackluster response only in order to fulfill their obligation that possibly they can instill their position that their music will be heard and ultimately be responded to.
I see those types of responses as immature just like those that incite "you suck" responses. It's about cosmetics.
The filtering system does not have an approach that selects "insincere" responses like the blatant "you suck" ones do. Not that I would want that mind you.
Politics is, as everyone knows, is a fraudulent game that must be played. And everyone is basically fine with that.
Online politics is essentially the very same thing.
Sure, it's blatant and crass to indicate that a composers work is crap in their eyes. However, they have as much right to indicate their shortcomings as those who approach this medium with ulterior motive in the name of insincerity to solidify their position in the name of popularity.
At least those that indicate a rude review are in no way lying. However, the insincere that review and exude that something in a totally obscure genre other than their own is fantastic, hide behind the veil of ambiguity...
Well said Mike.
Small numbers indeed,so that just leaves how one reacts to them.
Puch the chair away from the pc and go have a cup of tea,works wonders.
Nigel.
A BIG welcome to Saturated and Jim, the new mods on the block,..eheheheh
Well Dazed I`ve grown to love this site...Love giving my reviews of limited knowledge, (Technical terms elude me) to songs, and love to receive some too. I try to take on board any constructive critism I get...Do`nt think I`ve ever had anyone diss me completely but have seen it done to quite a few people and think it`s hateful and unnecessary...
wow ... this is great news and a hardy congrats to both of you.
Now get to work
Alrighty, now that that's out of the way, my thoughts on Dazed's remarks on Reviews. Yes, their has been quite a bit of hostility towards certain members for not reviewing. This is flat out wrong. Who are we to say that an Artist has to return reviews to receive them. Also I echo Dazed's sentiments about the feedback. If you do review an artists songs, please be civilized about it. Telling them it sux accomplishes absolutely nothing but animosity. It is my belief that each and every artist on this site puts their heart and soul into every song they compose. Who the hell are we to tell them that their creation is wrong or inferior?????? I have never to this date told any artist that their composition is not up to standards. I may suggest to back off on the bass a bit, add a touch more EQ etc. but that's as far as it goes. We are all individuals and need to respect each others works even if it's not your thing!!!
For what it's worth, I think Gabe hit the nail squarely on the head. I haven't done many reviews here of late, but I never have chosen what artist or songs I reviewed according to the reviews (and who did them) I had gotten. Sometimes a title, or an artists image draws me in. Doesn't matter.
I've always -- well, with one exception that I can think of -- found something positive to say about any song, in any genre, that I've listened to. I might suggest ways to improve things, but "sucks" has never been in my vocabulary. Heck, this whole making music thing is a life-long learning experieince, isn't it? None of us get it right all the time. The only way to improve is through the mistakes, then going back to correct them.
Dazed -- I am so glad to hear you make these points. Personally, I'd like to see the review numbers go bye-bye. I'm guessing the numbers ranking leads to a sense of competition -- an unecessary one, at that -- and when folks start competing heads, will eventually start bumping.
That's my 11.36 percent (talk about run-away inflation!)
Paul
yo jimbo.. way to go..
Damn,Jim told you about my baking skills huh? LOL
If I can ever be of service,cooking,cleaning,getting drunk,joyriding,invading a small country,just let me know
Nigel.
The law of duality does not exist in the Independent music scene.
The law of duality in a finite world such as ours indicates that everything has an opposite end or antithesis of the spectrum. Good-bad, hot-cold, light-dark, etc...
In the Independent world of music this is not allowed. What I mean is, if someone wants to indicate that they do not
like someones music, the music scene behaves like throwing hot water on ants.
It's expected of us to always give good and favorable results. It's expected!
Of course the mature thing to do would be not to respond at all if the music is not to our liking, or time is a factor and we cannot get to various music.
However, where is the crime if someone indicates that yes indeed, they do not like it.
In my own mind this only creates balance. If the individual who is receiving the negative review concerning their music gets insulted,
then why are you here in the first place? It only indicates insecurity regarding your craft.
The term Independent music is a misnomer.
Anyone who openly shares their music online is by no means Independent.
What we can become is independent in playing the game that is required to be played in order to be somewhat successful in the popularity realm.
If any musician/composer wants to have their music showcased or listened to in some form or another, they in reality, are in a Dependent music scene!
You become dependent on the other guys set of ears to validate your presence here.
The level of dependency varies from individual to individual.
The never ending cycle of listen to be heard is "required" to have somewhat of a successful existence in this medium.
This medium parallels mainstream music in regards to talent not being the main focus. Popularity is the main functionality.
Reviewer's in this medium are simply individuals who know how to get their music heard alot and thus gain popularity.
It's a basic science...
Online music has and will always be a "one shot deal" at best for the most part.
Simply enjoy this medium for what it is and never expect anything from anyone.
Dazed, I understand your concern in weeding out the "undesirables", but to keep Indpendent music sanitized in exercised concept is a not a healthy way to approach this. Look, it's your forum and you must do what you deem is best. However, there are individuals on this website who both respect what you're doing here, yet still contain opinions based on subjects such as this.
I would assume everyone here is of a mature content. That should indicate that everything thrown at us is perfectly fine. We should be able to handle the negative equally with the ever present positive.
Even if the negative responses are childish, thus negating the mature content, so what. If an individual gets upset because they were wrongfully scrutinized, doesn't that make them equally immature?
Dazed, your concern is a real one. You own this place. I would assume that if more honesty or more balance was instilled, it would drive the customers away so I understand your position.
For my own taste, this online world of dependent music is incredibly sanitized and it does not appear to change.
My 7 cents...Inflation, ya know?
Hey Jim and Saturated....welcome!!. Hadn't looked at this blog here. Interesting read. My half peso...
I personally prefer honesty and respect. I'm here to share and learn. I'm also here to form friendships based on a common love of music. Not for popularity. Not empty praise. Or disrepect. I apply filters to comments I receive. The filter rule is basically...
If the comment is 'qualified',containing sincere and useful reasons or illustrations of why a person perceives things a certain way - it counts. If on the other hand a comment is not qualified as in "this sucks" or "fabulous" without any hint as to why...the comment has no basis. It hardly has meaning to me. Both are easy to ignore as nonevents for me.
Dazed and mods, the dilemna of course is the age old one of how do you deal with masses of people, give them freedom and expect them to behave. Real tricky proposition! On one end, sanitization may result in removing an honest and sincere element of people. On the other, an environment of disrespect is not a helpful or pleasant.
Any solution has pros and cons. My only answer is it has been my pleasure and an honor to share this site with great musicians who care. I recognize the fine balance to be struck when dealing with the public, and have my trust in whatever response you feel is needed to do that. ~Blake
You guys already know I how I feel about tit for tat reviewing. I agree with pretty much everything that's been said. Constructive criticism is not saying "This sucks", it's saying, "Here's why I think you can do better". Some people have a hard time hearing that because art is a very personal extension of yourself. There is a tendancy to take it personal because you may attach your sense of worth to this piece of work that you've created. The cold, hard reality of the music business is that the publisher or A&R rep doesn't care. When you sit down with a publisher, they listen for about 30 seconds or less and they've aleady made up their mind about the song. If they don't stop the song, there is a remote possibility that they're interested. Either way, they're looking for reasons to reject it. Having said all of that, a person's goals have a lot to do with their response to the review. Maturity plays a large part, but if your goal is to get published, you better be willing to listen to advice because rejection is the norm in the biz. My rule of thumb for criticism is that if I hear a common theme in the criticism of a song, I better be willing to accept that this is a problem and make the correction. You can acknowledge the weaknesses in the music, but still recognize the effort. Some of this also depends on the goal of the artist, as well. It's hard to know what the goal of the artist is because it's usually not stated in the song info. Maybe we could add that to it, so we know how to approach the review. Maybe you just want the mix critiqued, or the lyrics. If it's a rough demo, maybe you know that so you don't want the production reviewed. Either way, the goal of the artist would help when doing the review.