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Reviews - The Honest Truth?
<p><span style="font-size: medium;">Hey gang. I have a question for you. The one thing that has always come up around Mixposure is the question of how Reviews should be done. Some say the members here are too nice in their reviews. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">This brings me to my question. What kind of reviews do you want? Do you want people to sugar coat your review or have an element of honesty to it? Personally, I will take honesty any day of the week. If William Hung (google him if you do not know who he is) posted a song on here, would you really say the song rocks or would you say, it needs some work? The guy can't sing to save his life. If I were to review his songs I would suggest Autotune for him.<br /></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">I am getting the feeling people feel they need to be super sweet in their reviews here. That is not helping anyone grow musically. However saying "You Suck" doesn't do much either lol. It takes a lot of guts to post your music up here for thousands to hear. So I applaud those who do. I want to help the artist grow. I try and point out things that would improve the Mix or maybe the song in general. I know I always used to look at it like a managment meeting. A few positives and a few negatives. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">This is the way I feel. Maybe you feel differently? So do you just want people to sing your praises or tell you areas of improvements as well? </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Please let me and everyone on Mix know how you feel! Remember, any review you do not like, you can delete!</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Dazed</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><a href="http://www.mixposure.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13733">*******POLL IS UP**********</a></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">We have added a <a href="http://www.mixposure.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13733">poll</a> to see how many are interested in a Review Crew. Please vote accordingly!!</span><br /></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><br /></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><br /></span></p>
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In that case, review my songs, I think people are on the generous side when they review mine, but hey, I enjoy the strokes of my ego, too. I got a negative review once and it steered me away from being a loop mashing piano player. I took the song dowm and buried it somewhere in the backyard of my mind, vowing not to exceed my limitations. Some times though, a song is born by breach birth and comes out with forceps marks all over it....wait that's me! Vic
hey remember the McCarthy or McCartney brothers ??? they were so good and so talented but never came back just sort of PARKED some songs here on the old MIx that used to irritate me those super talented professional types that Parked some really incredible tunes but never wrote back ...maybe they were all from LA and just got swallowed by the music scene there like my old Friend Scott McCarl the Raspberries second bassisit , I know he is in Santa Barbara somewhere hiding from Capitol records ...............
I like both good reviews and bad reviews at least some one listened ,if a get a really bad review I usually listen to that persons music to see where they are coming from .If they don't write songs or play an instrument then I IGNORE THAT PERSON LOL I don't give negative reviews so I am guilty of having sugar I am at not good at negative comments sorry dudes I had to much of that at garage band .
What i like about the mix is you can choose to post a song and not let people review it . I have a friend that always has a cooment good and bad his opinion is helpful in that sowemtimes he is right or his ideas make the song better . I remember they are OPINIONS .
Self Tort helped me alot a couple years back his comments steered me in the right direction I will never stop leaning how to record/multitrack/ write . I really like all the featutres here on the new Mix . Now I forgot what we were talking about ...damn.. I was invisible for few seconds...
Man, this is one long thread! I wouldn't use the critical review function at all. So as long as it is a choice, it wouldn't affect me one way or another. I have a small group of online friends that I use for that purpose. I've found one can ask for a critical critique from a dozen different people/strangers and get a dozen different fixes from each one with some being completely contradictary. So I use a select group of online songwriters for CRs and they give it to me straight, honest, in a friendly and trusted mannner.
Farrell
Hi all
Just a quick thanks for those people who sent me pm's asking where I've been. For personal reasons I decided to take a self imposed break from the site.
I do intend to continue reviewing, but only a couple of times a week, my days of 20+ are gone. So which ever way the process goes. Lets hope it works for the benefit of those who post the music.
All the best
Hello everyone. I’d like to add my 2 cents about reviews. I usually try to do reviews at least 2 times a week. I try to stick to my genre of rock and roll. I love the blues, so I look for blues, when I’m outta rock songs to review. Sometimes I stray to all types of music. I listen to every second of each song I review. I think that it is owed to the artists who post their songs here. I tell them what I hear, and why I like it. I think out of the 200 reviews I wrote in the last month or so there may have been 2 or 3 songs that I left a small bit of constructive criticism, something like vocals are mixed to low, or kick up the mix on a particular guitar part etc. If I don’t like a track, I move on to the next one. I won’t ever leave a “you suck” review. Why do that? Also, even though I may hear a song I like, but if the artist doesn’t leave reviews, and just parks their songs here I won’t leave a review. On the other hand I personally would like to hear that I suck, but also I would like to know why the reviewer feels that way. Yes that is very hypocritical of my views on this subject. There is nothing that anyone can say that will hurt my ego or feelings. I have heard it all, both negative and positive thru the years. Personally I don’t care what people think, but honesty is the best policy. Peace RJ
BRIAN!!!! Thanks!!! I have filled this typing square numerous times.....each time, I clear it out. Bottom line, it's none of my business. I only wish the two were one....and you were still a regular here.
Rob
You got it, Stephen......I just pulled out the old WANG.....Now??? If I can find the Chung.......It's a Happening Night!!! and Rick!!! Gotcha!!! I'm a speed reader, which means, I miss half the words....now, if I can only find that "R".....what's it look like? on the left or right?
It's official - Rob Grant said we all can Wang Chung tonight. I haven't done that in a long, long time! LOL
Stephan
BTW...I do want to thank Dazed once again for leaving this blog open and giving everyone a chance to express their opinions one way or the other regardless of the outcome. Ok where's my thumbs up emote ?????
I believe that for critical reviews there will be an option for that Rob. That's my understanding anyways. This is getting confusing isn't it lol. Anyways all is good. If you look at most polls, the majority of the outcome is always yes. Those are the people that want it most. So it will always tip in favor of the yes votes. So far Yes is outnumbering No 3 to 1 which I'm not surprised about. I'll support any format the site decides to go regardless. But !!! I will disable all reviews since I'm more interested in listeners than reviews anyways. If someone wants to comment on a song they can do it in the comments section. Either way, it's all good
I'm lost.......I thought you had to OPEN something "special" for critical reviews, otherwise, it would be...comments as normal. If it means allowing reviews in general, opens me up to "critical review", then I will block all comments. NOT, because I don't like the comments, but because, I'm not looking for "critical reviews". I do that with my friends and when I want to and when I'm ready for it. Like I said.....I know my weaknesses.
Anyway...The pool is up...It's Clear where it's going....and it's ALL GOOD!!!!! I'm here to support whatever is decided. AND!!! EVERYBODY can WANG CHUNG, TONIGHT!!!......
I completely understand Rob's thinking on this issue Rick. Yes there will be a lot of folks that will be intimidated to open up reviews rather than to admit they don't want critical feedback. Just human nature. Me I couldn't care less one way or the other, I've had my share of negative feedback and I NEVER changed anything nor let it sway my future way of writing or producing. But then again I'm pretty thick skinned and know what my goals are. The simple solution to this is, if you want critical feedback just allow reviews. If you just want listens, disable reviews and let folks comment on your front page. Simple really. No need for polls or anything else
"I only speak for myself. I'm afraid, people may be intimidated to post, if they don't go through the RC"
That is EXACTLY my thinking as well Rob. Some folks want that negative feedback, most just want people to listen. Not sure how this will impact the review categorys. My feeling is that there will be a lot more comments left on the Comments pages than on the the review side of things.
I've made my feelings known from the get go so it should come as no surprise that mine was the 1st No vote. Is there a prize for that ??????
OK. I see nobody dares to admit that they voted no.The terror's already starting...Well I voted NO...Don't need no crew cut crew to tell me my signing is off key...the horrified looks my cat and neigbours are giving me are clear enough.
i have been thinking about this a lot lately, as you folks have noticed from my posts to this thread.
and even though only a couple of people have responded to my thoughts here in this thread, i did vote. i voted yes! how can somthing this generous possibly hurt any one of us. it can't! not in the way that dazed has layed it out to be our choice whether or not to use it!
i have on many occasions myself, asked for the insight of fellow muso's to give me their honest opinion about a songs mix or whatever, only to get the usual digger sounds great!, or no responce at all. please don't get me wrong, i love that anyone is listening to my music! no doubt! but sometimes it does help for someone else to listen on a good sound system, and give their honest two cents! it helps a lot! and i plan on using this little feature all the time, if it is passed.
i love being a part of this place, you guys are the best!
mixpo rules!!!!
peace,
digger
Actually all great points Rob. Yes Genesis is GREAT
It's the 1970's and the following artists just posted a new song......AND!!! Let's say, you've never heard any of them......Neil Young, Jeff Beck, Genesis, The Eagles, Lynryrd Skynyrd, Boston, Neil Diamond, Lou Reed, Iggy Pop, and Weather Report here. How many would you actually comment on? Can Neil play guitar like Jeff? Can Iggy and Lou sing like Neil D? Do the Eagles weigh less as musicians, because they don't play like Weather Report? Is Tom Sholtz dual guitar sound better than Skynyrd's two players? Genesis is GREAT!!! hehehehehehehehe! Well in my opinion, there ain't no difference, than what's going on here in this discussion.......I never did like NY, except with CSN&Y....just my opinion. SO!!!! I never would have commented on him. Ok, except "Cinnamon Girl"....I liked that song......hehehehehehe
So, why am I dragging this thread on????...hehehehehe!! because, I can
I know I don't seem to have the time to review as much as I should, and I've already made my views on reviewing known, but I really don't see this as such a big deal. Some have already said it, most of what we see on here are not reviews, but encouraging pats on the back. That's fine and, I think, needed for the most part. However, if you're a serious artist and really want to grow, you don't need pats on the back, sometimes you need a ballpeen hammer to the forehead. We artists are very fickle sometimes. The music industry doesn't care. They are looking for reasons to reject you. The only way a person can grow is to receive honest feedback. If you want to be an artist and get a label deal or a publishing deal, then you need to have thick skin. If you can't handle constructive criticism, then don't expect to "make it". You'll never get past the first publisher that tells you not to quit your day job. If a person here does not have that as a goal in mind, then they don't need to ask for a review. I see absolutely no problem with a review crew. It just needs to be made clear that if your song gets submitted to the "crew", then expect an honest, constructive assessment of where your song is and how it can be improved. Someone here mentioned Simon Cowell. A lot of people don't like his "upfront" style, but if you watch when he gives a compliment, people go nuts. Why? Because when he gives a compliment, people know he means it. They may not like his style, but they really respect his opinion, whether they realize it or not. He is a very accurate reflection of the industry attitude towards artists. I think for the most part, the members on this site just want a forum in which they can be heard. There is a small minority here that is truly serious about what they're doing and where they're going with it. Those are the ones that would benefit from a serious "review". The rest will just be happy that you listened and there's nothing wrong with that.
"It could also be that they did not know how to mix something and Kent or someone could jump in and help."
BINGO
This is 3 days worth or posts? Whew!! I can't read all this, but did read some comments and every one of them was thoughtful. Impressive comments. Firebird raises a great question. And Reaper's statement at the bottom of the stack is very true. Dazed's initial question to kick this off shows his level of caring. All in all, the best place for everyone is one that everyone gets out of it what they value most. If there is way to that handle that on Mixpo, Dazed will find a way. There's no doubt that everyones input here is helpful to that end.
I can honestly say that everyone I've ever heard here is great in their very own way. For me it's never absolute -- an opinion, relative, and a journey... not a destination. ..blake
Guys I think you misunderstand the review crew. It is not supposed to be a negative experience at all. Why would it be?
The idea behind it is to give a little bit more in depth review and point out some things that maybe the artists did not think about. It could also be that they did not know how to mix something and Kent or someone could jump in and help.
Good stuff Dig, I think that is a viable option. My opinion still stands though. If an artist wants critical feedback or suggestions on their mix it should be made available either in the recording forum or it's own separate category somewhere in the forum.
I know Kent certainly would have no lack of advise to give and there are many fine engineers and producers here that I'm sure would love to participate.
I'm with you Dig, this should be a very easy thing to do. I'm just glad Dazed gives us all an opportunity to chime in and get involved with the decision making. How many OMD sites actually gives their members that option?
Gabriel
I've done my comparing of the past...and it's my feeling that a 'Review Crew' is unnecessary. It connotates to me a 'negative' feel of that past Mix. -the feeling of bouncers in a bar, & don't bring in here back anything from the past that did not fully work,or/and was not totally appreciated... so please step back 2 steps everyone. >Reflect, before this turns into a possible negative, unproductive session.
Ofen the words 'leave well enough alone", for awhile, comes to me now, even though great things have been said.
So let's not talk in circles... a small ball roling into a bigger not able to control, can happen. I think we can adapt slowly, look at the good stuff, it's gone way far, so let's use another perhaps new democratic way of finding fresh new workable 'creative ideas' thinking outside of the box, and not back out of the 'old box'. Thank you.
how about this,
instead of just offering the review box on the download page,why not offer the artist the ability to accept reviews, or comments, or both on any given song. this would more appropriately categorize what the artist is looking for in the replies of anyone that is listening.
for instance: a comment would be "nice song, really enjoyed this"
and a review would be: "the vocals need to come up a bit in the mix,and the drums need to be eq'd a bit more etc etc.etc...."
this little adjustment would tell us all what any given artist is willing to accept, and wants from us! and we all could comment accordingly! easy
this would also done outside of the ability to leave band comments on the main page of any given artist.
let me know what you guys think!
digger
A NASTY CREW?!?!?!?!?!?! I thought they were going to be nice, constructive, positive.......Why?!?!?!?! "Nasty" would ruin one's self-esteem and that wouldn't be "politically correct" in today's world. I think we must rethink this whole idea. Let's start he thread all over again............
Amen to that Rick!
GO GABE!!!! POLL ME!!!! hehehehehehehehehe!! I'm going to keep on doing what I do, regardless. I LIKE to give my "Kudos"....it's fun for me to do. As for the "Review Crew"......unless, I'm mistaken, they are there for those who request them...correct? They aren't going to "Review" every song that gets posted are they? Anyway.....POLL US!! POLL US!!! POLL US!!!....and then tell us what we're voting for......hehehehehehehehe....
I don't know folks, a review crew just sounds so darn cold. Brings back memories of another site/s I belonged to. Had a couple of main review guys that leaned to much towards one genre or another. I really feel this would take a lot away from the Mix family as a whole and put it one step closer to all the other sites out there. Just my opinion of course, but then again, you asked
Gabriel
I honestly don't think this entire review/comment thing is an "issue" at all. It's up to the one leaving a comment as to how indepth he might do so. I'm like Jay, if I like a song, I'll comment. If not, off to the next one. I don't think that my "method" will ever change.
Cheers,
Mike
I believe one does write reviews on songs which they like and and I do listen to songs in full and write reviews only if I like them.... if it is some thing I dont like I leave it....Go to the next.
a song gets reviews if it attracts the listener.....I believe there are some very good songs in mix with just one or two reviews ...now thats even worse ....
regards
Jay for the Autumnleaf
Dazed, I know your standpoint on this issue for a long time and it coincides with mine. I do not think the majority of people here actually would endorse a review crew. In fact, what I read in this blog, people would like to stick with the format they see now. There are a couple of musicians in this blog who'd like to see a crew, me included, but I do not think it'll be something people would make use of, ultimately. So, yeah, a clear and straightforward poll would give you - us - the definite answer (before you start getting into the coding hell, lol).
Just my summing up here ...
Heinz.
OOOOOPS!!! Dazed!!! That's supposed to be "COOL TUNE"!!!! sheeeesh!!! See!!! I can't even spell right.......PS!! Because I'm always taken out of context, the below comment was supposed to be a joke. Doncha'all go gettin' me fired now. If I have to explain it, it wasn't funny. Ok, I'm sorry.......I didn't even realize.....aww geeeeze!
Maybe, I'll put up a Disclaimer with my Songs from now on...ROB GRANT - Partially Deaf, Crippled Hands, As good as he's ever gonna be, Can't read a lick of music, plays by ear, a hobbyist, tone deaf, and Boys just wanna have fun - Please take this into account before listening. Thanks You! Hahahahahahahahahaha!!! "Cool toon, Thanks for the add" IS acceptable!!
hey doc! thats just how i feel!
i just don't care, just as long as someone is listening-i'll keep writing!
you guys have fun!
peace,
digger
You guys are awesome!!
You know the point of this was pretty simple. I have been hearing feedback that people are afraid to really "review" a song. I ask myself why? I do it all the time and people do it to me as well.
I have been on sites where they will tell you to change your chord progression. Now I would never go that far. You write the music the way you hear it. But they will get down to the smallest details. Personally I do not have the time, patience or expertise to get that detailed. But I do know what sounds good to me and try and tell you guys what I feel.
So if you guys want a review crew, that is fine with me. I just want to make sure before I start coding stuff that there is an interest in having it. Maybe a poll would be a good idea??
Lots of stuff said hear that makes sense to this brain. One other angle in my mind refers to the fact that I hear so many incredibly talented, creative artists on this site who will probably never sell over 10 CD's. Before sites such as Mix, you could pour your soul into a song and after a couple of friends and your mother heard it. . . .well not very satisfying. The beauty of this site to me is not the "critical review" designed to improve your skills like a piano teacher critiquing your left hand runs, but in being heard and appreciated by people who also LOVE music! You don't have to "make it" to "make it", if you know what I mean. Emotionally that means the world to me and I am incredibly grateful for the opportunities Mix has provided!
David c Deal
Darn, hit submit too fast !!! To finish off my thoughts and then I'll let it go, I don't think we need a review crew, sounds almost too silly to me. What we do need is common sense when leaving our reviews!
Well just read through all the posts real careful. Really love Robs take on it, exactly how I feel. My thinking is this and I think it would make things a lot simpler. If somebody wants a public critical review/feedback on their song, well there is always the Record Forum and the Help me mix my track sub forum. Or maybe Dazed can make a new forum just for constructive feedback?
One last thing....I just left one of Markuu's music pages and something clicked in my head about the "Review" process. Thes aren't "Reviews" that we do. My whole idea or concept is.......We are just taking an opportunity to leave a Kudos, a comment or just an expression of "thanks" to an artist. Back "in the day"....we never had an opportunity to express our thanks to the artists, when listening to records or going to concerts. I'm sure we had a lot of satisfaction from them, but never got to share it with them. Even if we did, most of them probably would been smug about it anyway. Today, we have THAT opportunity to get to know the artists and share our thoughts.....even just a small token of "Cool Song".....I really liked that". SO!?!?! What's wrong with that? It's a good thing, no matter how technical or non-technical......if you like it, you like it. AND!!! For those who want to improve on their technical ability, that's a good thing to......it's GREAT to have the ability to go to someone, who doesn't have their head up their butt and want to knock you down and say.....Don't waste your time kid, you ain't gotta shot in hale. THUS!!! MIXPOSURE, forming a "Review Crew" would be a COOL thing for those who want help.
THE END!!
Rob
For the most part I tend to prefer leaving a "comment" verses a review unless the artist is specifically asking for constructive feedback.
I also agree with Rob if your not crazy about the song don't leave a public review. If its in a sticky situation where they ask you specifically for feedback then send a private note if neccesary. Also keep in mind we all have our own ideas and tastes in how we like our music to sound.
I do like Gina's suggestion of the idea of the review crew or having a separate section for that sort of thing for the constructive feed back if that is what the artist is seeking.
FIREBIRD!!! In my opinion......You hit it...RIGHT on the nose. There is no way to Generalize a way to review. There are different reasons why people are here, different levels of talent and sensitivity. I think that is why Brian (Selftort) was suggesting a "Review Crew", which would mean, an artist could have his song reviewed by the "CREW" by choice only. The "Crew" would be made up of good quality and respected Mixposure Artists and Listeners. The regular review process could go on as usual. I think everybody really knows, that the so called "pats on the backs" are truly meant warm wishes from the people here and not as BS. We're all grown ups, sensitive or not....and we all know, we don't have to say anything, why waste time saying anything at all, if you don't really like something.....c'mon?!?!??!?!? There's tons of GREAT music here to give WARM KUDOS to, why waste time giving out wamrth to something you don't like. If that "HUNG" guy came here, I just wouldn't review him.
Rob
Alright, here comes my input. But let me first say how much I appreciate people here stating their concerns, ideas and how you guys treat each other with utmost respect. I applaud that!! I've got two things to say here:
First - Reviews/Comments as they are right now.
I wouldn't want to change a thing the way people do their reviews, be it sugar-coating or somewhat constructive, or a mixture of both. It has worked, so it seems, and we shouldn't change that format.
Having said that however, there are a couple of things I need to get off my chest: I personally don’t care for 'reviews for a review', rather, I'd like to see artists who have just received a review by someone, to take the time and write back a simple 'Thank You' or more. I know, some here do it, but the vast majority don't. I can honestly say, that is was exactly THIS what pissed me off doing reviews. I know I didn't do 20+ reviews every day, but on good days I did around 10 or 15; and got back a mere 5 PMs of artists thanking me for the time listening to their song and write a comment about it. Mostly, these artists are very close to me. But the majority out there - those that just upload their songs, waiting to be reviewed just don't bother acknowledging my time. It’s one thing if an artists chose to be passive in our community, but – really – what’s the big deal to acknowledge someone else’s feedback? Wouldn’t we all do that in ‘real life’, if it happens person to person?
I also know many of you don’t even care about that – but I do. Call me old-fashioned, or something, but this is what makes a community a great community.
The other thing I’d like to say here, openly, is – I’d like to see a certain rule implemented that allows users to upload their songs AFTER doing a couple of reviews. I know, it’s sounds like the damned Garageband site, but hey – this is the only thing I thought was good at that site. I’m not talking 30 reviews, than one song is ready to be reviewed – I’m talking: Take your time and do 2-5 reviews, then post a song. And so on … This would also help reducing the flood of uploaded songs by newcomers.
To sum it up – the comments/reviews should actually be comments only. Comments on the song to tell people that the reviewer liked what she/he heard. A feedback, a pad on the shoulder, whatever it may be – it makes the artist feel good (I like it too). And then – write back to the reviewer that you appreciated her/his time for the input.
Second – Constructive Reviews/Review Panel
I’m all for it!! A review panel consisting of musicians/lyricists who are confident enough to say, they’ve got knowledge and experience in a certain area of a song (be it arranging, performing, recording, mixing, etc …) AND like to share this with other artists. This is what I envision of such a panel. I’d welcome it wholeheartedly and would make use of it too.
BUT, this should not be done in the general ‘comments’ area, rather, it should be a subforum within the forum. It can be public, why not? Chances are, other readers of those reviews may learn a thing or two as well … But, artists should be able to choose that they want some sort of review, or critique.
Brian’s ‘demo’ comes to mind – he’d put it in there, asking for genuine input, and the panel would analyze and hopefully give him some inputs which he then could implement, if they work for him.
Yes, such a panel would be a huge asset to this site.
As I type this I’m thinking of Steve Gilmore, who some of you know is a well respected, great reviewer, always in demand on that site he’s doing them. People willingly put their songs out there for him (and others) to be reviewed. I know we can do that here too. Artists who like to learn from others, who are eager to hear what other musicians think of their work, etc … they should have a space like that on the Mix. This is missing here.
Lastly, and most importantly – that review panel shall not trash a song a la Simon Cowell (who speaks his mind, sure, but he’s too blunt), but rather pick out the positives and those areas that need improvement. Suggestions, the panel will give suggestions – not just criticism. Ideas, that may have worked for them in the past, etc … you get the picture.
I think if we’d adhere to my two statements, we’d be able to satisfy both types: musicians seeking comments on their songs, and musicians seeking constructive feedback.
I like to play "Devils Advocate"...I'm always good at that
Hey, Brian.....either I p'd a lot of people off or doing reviews doesn't guarantee listens or reviews anymore. BUT!!! I TOO!!! Have always told people, not to worry about coming by to pay me back with a review, when I get a PM "THANKS" from them.......stating they'll get by when they have time.
As for the reviews......I highly doubt that anyone lies, when reviewing. If I don't like something, I just don't review it. NOW!!! That doesn't mean anyting I don't review, I don't like. It means, of the songs I listen to that I do like, that I have time to review, I express my feelings in my own simple unprofessional terms.
As far as a "Review Crew"....I think that's a GREAT IDEA....for those that want it or ask for help. I have made many friends here and at othe OMD's and they have given me many tips over the year. It has all been done on friendly terms and.........I have only been publicly humiliated twice at Soundclick. But then, I didn't ask for and I am a sensitive guy. SO!!!! I'm saying a "REVIEW CREW" in the proper hands when asked for is an EXCELLENT IDEA.
Rob Grant
Hiya Gina
I'll play the game and answer the question. I'm a relative new boy to this site compared to some of the members here, and in that time I think I've made a positive contribution to what goes on around here.
I know nothing about what went on with the old site which a lot of people seem to refer to like it was the good old days.
What I do know is, that any kind of panel is there for one reason only. That is to create and administer policy. So if members feel the need to set up a panel to govern what is said in a review.
Does that mean anything outside the criterion gets deleted ie censored.
Then where does it go from there.
hence my concern
Maybe more than a lively debate lol.
This concept of constructive opinions could be subject to miss-interpretation, let me explain. I can say to someone that the guitar is to low in the mix, maybe you should bring it up a bit. Constructive. or destructive
I can also say say that I think the mix is so well produced, that maybe the piece has lost some soul. basically it's become so damned good that it's sterile. Constructive or destructive
I can say, that that background hiss, gives this that old style recording originality. Constructive or destructive.
Those could be conceived as window dressing for, "your song just aint got it". however I say to someone. That's a great number, guitars worked for me, the vocal performance was impressive and I enjoyed the listen.
where's the difference? It's my personal opinion, not a judgment.
Like others here I have posted songs asking for opinions on how my mixes or vocals are improving. Surprisingly enough it's the remarks about liking the solo, vocals, guitar or whatever that have made me aware of the improvements I'm making.
When I see a number of senior members of this site talking about a review committee, that worries me. It smacks of the censor. Not something I want to have any part in. I'm gonna watch this space with concern
I'm pretty darn honest when it comes to my comments and have no problem to constructively say stuff like "vocals are off pitch", "the mix is lacking this or that". I'm all for being honest, but NOT "insulting".
Cheers,
Mike
Thanks everyone for your replies!
I guess what it boils down to for me is that if I have learned anything over the last 5 years it is you can't please everyone. When you try to, the result usually ends up worse than the initial issue. Make 3 people happy, piss off 10. There is never a happy medium lol.
So with that in mind, I wanted to discuss reviews. As Brian mentioned it has been a topic of forum fodder for some time. The idea of a Review Crew was never really abandoned and discussion has been ongoing. It may or may not become a reality.
Usually when I post a song it is a final. The odds of me going back and changing something are slim. Not because I think the review suggestions are bad but because I usually have someone else mixing my tunes. I do not want to bother Kent and say change this and change that. However the comments made can be incorporated into other songs. I use the critiques to grow and take to the next song so feedback, positive or negative, is very valuable. Maybe not everyone feels the same and they just want positive reinforcement.
For what it's worth, my experience is consistent with the views expressed by Holley and bruffie. Most people are prepared to accept well intentioned suggestions for improvement. But it really doesn't happen in here. I had a song that was in demo mode and specifically requested suggestions for improvement. The response was almost entirely "nothing to change it's great as it is".
I find that hard to accept. I'm not slighting anyone who responded to the track as maybe there was something that you really liked. But given that I had already expressed my own reservations and had invited a warts and all response, I'll be honest, those reviews were pretty deflating. Sometimes saying "nice" is not really saying anything at all.
There is a present ethos about the site that, rightly or wrongly, gives the impression that if you put a song up, and someone's prepared to review it, it will be a favourable review. That makes it really difficult if you suss out something that in your view needs work. Do I say it and risk offending the artist who has been attuned to receiving only favourable reviews, or do I review it and ignore the things that I believe would benefit from some further work. Or do I just click exit and avoid the dilemma. Sadly, of late I've chosen the latter course. I know I'm not alone in that respect.
Cheers
Brian
I would take constructive honesty everytime. It's the only real way to improve as an artist. However, I don't someone to listen to my stuff and say you guys are rubbish. I want someone to say 'the mix could do with a little work' or 'the vocals are not strong enough' etc.....
I can live with that.
Dazed your gonna open up a lively debate with this one.
My beliefs are that reviewing is an individual thing. you can't put up guidelines on how it's done or even why. I thought the idea of reviewing was to show this site has a community and all have an equal opportunity to participate. The fact you have a very active reviewing process in place confirms that. Try to impose rules on what people are allowed to say and you'll just stifle it.
Review contents:
Ok maybe a little sugar coating is sometimes necessary. I'll stand guilty as charged, but you have to take the comments in perspective with what you are commenting on.
There are some amazing musicians in here, who can produce real quality in their work. There are those less talented who have access to production facilities that bring out the very best in in their work.
Great but you can't forget those people who make their music using the very basic setup of maybe one usb mike into an old pc.
So what do you do praise the quality of the big guy and slate the quality of the little guy. No! what you try and do is make a balanced comment on what you hear.
You also have the issue of music type, I would say that a good 85-90% of the users on this site have a bias toward guitar drives styles. Myself included.
However there is a large minority that don't and many times they get overlooked in the reviewing process. Maybe encouraging some of those users to start commenting would bring a new set of opinions to the table.
The issue of not liking a track is an easy one, don't leave a comment. I've listened to many numbers in all styles that I did'nt like so I don't offer any comments or opinions.
I personally have received a lot of thanks from new and regular members on this site for firstly bothering to listen, then for the comment. To me that shows a welcoming and friendly site. I try to make a comment constructive, but sometimes even if you just say you liked their work, that's enough.
This sight is run by the few for the many, and they do a bloody good job. I spend a bit of time here myself, but I can imagine the amount of work put in by the admin coming up with ideas to make my life as a user easier and more interesting. However if the views of the few, were to become the rules for the many. Then the vitality of the site is gone
I tried to make my position on this issue clear on a forum thread that Nigel started, where it was suggested that the Review Crew which had been a part of the old mixposure, might be resuscitated. As always happens when this issue is raised, there was much gnashing and wailing, and eventually, and not surprisingly, the idea was abandoned, people got hurt and to be honest I lost a lot of interest in this place.
There is no perfect OMD and there can't be. You can't put professional musicians, semi-professional musicians, talented hobbyists, less than talented hobbyists and others that fall somewhere in between those categories and provide a satisfying environment for all.
To be perfectly honest, Dazed, I think this site lost a bit when it took over some of the old hallmarks of the old site. Many of us old mixposers perhaps still have some rose-coloured glasses on. There were halcyon days on that site, but at the end it had become an embarrassment. The emphasis on charts (both reviewer and artist) had led to people sussing out how to manipulate their way on to the charts. I'll put my hand up as a guilty party. I'd like to think my intentions were honourable. I'd come into the site, got some positive feedback and was prepared to spend time doing reviews. The more reviews I did the more response my music got and it had a snowball effect where I was in both the top 10 artists and the top 10 reviewers.
That's when the penny dropped. I am a hobbyist who wants no more than to write, record and play music and hopefully have other people listen. It's a bit like the old Groucho Marx line..... "if I'm in the top 10 of this site, I don't think I want to be part of it".
I can understand that professional musos/bands coming into a site on which I'm in the top 10 might well think "Well if that's the best they can do, let's go elsewhere".
Unfortunately this is a topic on which I have the tendency to go on and on about, so I will try to avoid doing that. I haven't been around here much of late. The "review for review" thing has really never been part of my ethos. I've had Soundclick review threads where I've made it clear I'm not after reviews back. But I know that on the original mixposure I compromised myself. The ethos had developed where those posting had the perception that they were guaranteed glowing reviews and I probably fell into that trap. I'm not going to do it again. So at the moment I'm posting songs here and calling in from time to time to review things that i like. I love the radio shows and call into chat when I can.
The problem is not admin. I hope I've made it clear from past blog/forums that I have nothing but praise and respect for those that run this site. They provide the oxygen that potentially enables the rest of us to share that oxygen. It's a question of how it's shared that determines whether a site is appealing to an individual. At the moment I'm not overly infatuated with the oxygen ratio and tend to stay away. Not saying I'm right or justified, just the way I feel.
I'd love to think that this site could really expand and provide a fantastic facility for musicians of a variety of talent and experience. Certainly there's no lack of thinking outside of the box at the top. But if we at the coal face degenerate into using the site for an "i'll post one, you post" one mutual admiration society, we can't really complain if others don't want to take part.
Dazed, I hope this response doesn't elicit the usual reaction from members. In the past it has always ended in tears. I admire you for raising the topic but, having been there before, don't expect that you'll get resolution from having done so. Just want to make clear, though, that nothing I've said is intended as in any way a slight on the mods, the admin, the radio people. I have realised since before the final demise of the original mixposure that such problems as exist, exist at the grass roots level (although back in those days there were a lot of admin problems as well, which is not the case at the moment on this site).
Cheers
Brian
Holley just said a whole lot of well put feelings; I agree with. I also would rather have constructive feedback, so I can improve still, mainly & as I am trying to review in terms of strengths, the feeling, expression has to be there somewhere, (like in art/design, I tell my students, if the brushstroke/pencil doesn't have feeling, don't make that stroke, wait for it...or it's not the time", ...I ask myself 'am I getting those genuine things out of the song?'; then if it is expressive I'll say so. One thing I have noticed, & we all have done it, just human, maybe one's not sometimes really focused on the song commnet totally, so a quick simple kind of not so meaningful review/comment just may only fill a space. I know I tend to sometimes over-analyse, often type while I'm listening which is good or not so good & finished at the end of the first time around. Most often, I let it loop, play it again, because even for a not heavily orchestrated songs, I often feel I missed something; even a singer & the one piano behind it for example; I may have missed something, go back, or review later.
I try to avoid anything that is for sure not at all my thing. I think the strengths should outway any weaknesses. There are some newcomers; young, the sing well, you could really feel the potential, but maybe the mixing 'sucks',& or the guitar is 'twangy' but I would never use those words; (in the old Mix reviewers did for sure) no matter what age actually; that's really irrelavant; so saying more about the best part & suggesting, as Holley said, using appropriate words for the critique on what is lacking; it tends to always be appreciated; ones tone in text can be detected; often forgotten. There's nothing more wonderful, than someone trying really hard -taqlked about their potential,later, coming back with a mail, saying; "yeah, I really appreciate your commnents & thanks for letting me know that part of it should be worked on more"...stuff like that.
It's most interesting when I think back to the old Mix...well words of harshness, rude stuff was flying much often across the reviews,back biting stuff & maybe none or little of any good mention often. I have liked certain rap - hip-hop, not my thing mostly, but there are some neat fusions out there...so I don't go to something I can't handle. I just heard someone do a hip hop tune, & after a second play; I listened to just the piano & realized, AMAZING, by itself, it's like classical piece. I told him that & I said that to me he had challenged the limits. Great! Back to the old Mix, well a few years is enought to weed away the 'ugly' stuff, & many artists were imProving then much exploring, including myself. Now, to me this Mixposure is a very mature site of better artists, many who were there before & have found their nitche & are great...so another reason, I think I'm finding more good things to say, with neat new fusions of sounds & greater productions than in the old Mix. Also we artists have better equipment, which takes into account good sound levels for example. Back then, there were for sure strengths but maybe equal in there to say what needs improving, like "well that needs some better sound levels", or "your vocal should be upfront", having said he or she had a good voice if only it came up more in the mix. Just seems like alot of artists have improved, & I thank many for letting me know, which finally may lead one to the thing that really is what they are genuinely best at doing.
I would take a good critique, over of course a sugary one. If my music did something to someone in uplifting them; & that's what they said, that has merit too. One can certainly express well without a lot of words of course, others may need some improving in variation of word use. Anyhow, I'm writing an essay now (lol) teacher syndrome (I see red lights flashing). Good you brought this up Dazed.
I would like to say, that one does remember those words that were meaningful...short or longer comments. As you said to me Dazed, which meant alot, forget the song, but it was close to "this is one of the best you have done, you've really come a long way on this", sgain very close to that, & that means alot.
We're all always learning & that's one main reason being here. Also getting others simply positive feedback. It is hard to get to everyone; I've suggested to a few who seemed to feel no one was listening, well try & promote yourself, if you're serious, don't get dowm, because like for me the thing I love about art is that you learn to be good at something, but people just don't come always kocking on your door, esp.these days; you have to get assertive & not feel like a 'victim', for a lck of a better word. Well as Holley said, it's being honest and how you say it that counts & it comes back to you or not. I don't expect paybacks. Again the 'unexpected' makes life interesting & being open to emphatically liestning, not to be confused with symphathy, just plain good listen and then speaking after listen carefully with compassion. Just give it a go!
Thank you Dazed. -Vesa.
I do appreciate constructive feedback much more than the sugar coated stuff. How would you know where you need to improve if people are not being honest? I guess it depends how critical it is. You have to also keep in mind the playing level they are at to be fair about it.
If some one flet they needed to be really super critical.. I would probably rather get it in a private message verses a public post. I also think its important to bring out the postive aspects in a review as well to help inspire the artist to move forward. Honestly I really think it's all in how you say it.
You brought up the old Mixposure Mark...and have some idea likely. One had to be there to say, now, great, this Mixposure has more mature artists,(maybe some of us have just gotten older and wiser (lol, but true; time improves in thought and performance, in much of the sense... so many here are top notch 'in their element'. Learning never stops thought, as it is said.
I see the old Mix as an experience of the good, bad and ugly. Sites were still kind of new, first of all,don't forget, good reviewing took a back seat to bgetting to number one in charts was a bit more than just competition, it seemed to be the thing for some; often not done fairly. It wasn't the best structure, either then, as it is quite good now here. It caused a daily race for some, to get to the top, so really that was a focus for some- reviews seemed much of the time towards the end not to have meaning, feeling, compassion, often no bit of helpful 'improvement' comments. Then it really often felt highly competitive, jealousy lingered...artists had their little groups, fine, but often for selfish reasons & to back their opinions about perhaps like I recall, someone said once like,- "this style is what is really the right way to do it buddy; yours doesn't do it at all!!"...many that were blunt, horrid, and juvenile...some artists, often popping from another site, noticebly were banned/suspended. Why? Most often lacked of respect. A few were already kicked out of another.
Some few intentional bad words may have really turned off some new artists with great potential; very sad to see. Alot of bashing and making assumptions. One group taking sides without knowing the issues, just jumping right in. Really when I think of that 'era' (funny to call it that, it seems a good word choice). There was alot of negative things flying around. Everyone had a 'comment box', on their page profile open to the everyone, it was sometimes a place to have someone rant at you a mile page long...having their attack of words with a grudge perhaps, or simply had to vent...irrational behavior. It happened often enough, that much control was lost. Most artists were fine, but like in a classromm it doesn't take many 'bad attitude kids' to get everyone worked up. With many I saw I think it's important to compare; it was a slow to a quicker escalation of what should not have to happen on a site. Growing pains growing up. Lots of refecting I'm sure after it died.
Nothing is perfect of course...but often that & this is like day & night. This Mixposure has more of the ingredients of mature artists,people I notice are being helpful, good suggestions, better ethics, more compassion, no assuming going on, better critiques & good feedbacks. I don't really sense play me for a play here... it was occurring lots then. I don't believe in that. I'm not going to carry on too far, but I've noticed that since the artists here are much better as a whole, focusing on good music & paying attention to others emphathically, taken their music to where they feel good about it. So many amazing new fusions now that are superb artistry. It is difficult to say more now, "this or that should be improved". The productions are better, good new equipment over these years has helped. Also, more artists that help give advice about saying to try this new device they liked, and not being pushy... and certainly over that span from before, alot of practising that is obvioulsy noticable, has made quality songs. Yes, I do find it interesting in finding no real ideas for improvement suggestions, ofen, so I just go with the flow; leave it well said, & sit back and enjoy it. Darn good stuff here. Maybe some of the 'good improvement reviews' in the past did make many of us say, "that's right, good suggestion". Yes, past good comments, have made the songs we hear more in this Mix more top notch works of art, along with much more variables. Artist's are more concious of what they put out, that feels right. Again much more respect has certainly been a key. We've grown to know better what is the right thing to do and say, and are more confident, we know each other better, and reviews are well taken all over generally and still constructive, each doing well their special way. Again there is time needed in getting to those new artists. I would like to see more effort in listening to new artists, which is quite important really. I'm trying as best as I can, and will do better in that area.
My two cents here. I do not use the harsh words like "YOUR MUSIC SUCKS!" - no way. I used a difference approach like "If the vocal is mixed with more instruments like ....", it would sound more gentle. I got very precious feedback for my other tracks from David Pendragon, Dicarlo, etc, etc. And bascially, I am improving every now and then. Thanks to all the people who showed me so much supports and love. I salute you guys across the pacific ocean.
PS : We are here to make music and meet new friends - not to make enemies.
With million of love from Singapore.
Piperon - One and Only spiritual flute player on Earth.
Well Brian pretty much spelled out my thoughts regarding this topic fairly precisely (saves me a lot of typing lol). I left a pretty lengthy reply to Nigels thread so I don't want to repeat myself here.
But this is what I do have to say in a nutshell. There is NO SUCH A THING AS BAD MUSIC !!!! We have to remember, people pour their hearts and souls into their material. Me...I have absolutely no problems uploading my material. If somebody doesn't like anything about it, it doesn't matter to me one bit. I'm not here to impress other musicians, rather share my music. With that said, for a lot of folks it takes a lot of courage to upload their material for the world to hear. The last thing I'm going to do is criticize it in public!!! I've had many artists ask me to go listen to their songs and give my honest opinion, which I do and I send them a personal PM making suggestions if it needs it.
When I do do an open review I focus on the parts I enjoy and comment on those areas. If I think a certain section is too hot, their guitar is out of tune, the tempo out of sync...whatever, I do ALWAYS do this in a private PM.
Personally I'm not into a review driven site as much as a listener driven site. Been there, done that and that is the MAIN reason I joined guitaristworks a few years back. Listen....some folks like to review, that is all good and dandy, some artists don't review at all, some do so when time permits. It's all good IMO. I just don't like the idea of having to review shoved down my throat. I do it when i have the time and feel driven to. And as stated earlier I NEVER criticize openly, just not my style. In most, and I emphasize MOST cases, a nasty critical comment made publicly does more harm then good.
...Gabriel
I agreed with Selftort and Rob, we need a "Review Crew" label here to justify the standard of reviewing process. I was the "Review Crew" at the old mix and was enjoying every review I done although the payback was very low. I done it not for the sick for return review but as a job to pass love around. A spreading fire of love - an unconditional love.
With million of love from Singapore.
Piperon - One and Only spiritual flute player on Earth.
"Reviews" is a subject that's remarked about quite often so I assume it's an issue to many with many sub-topics.
How many? Honesty? Reason for review? (payback?) Needed or not? What is being reviewed?-(the writing,music,lyrics...) etc.
I think the answers to all of these are related to the type of people available to be reviewing and also to the type of people being reviewed.
The "honesty" of reviewing, in my opinion, is not something that one could ever be assured of- so why question it? I have questioned the honesty of a review but not reviews as a subject area.
There are many good reasons a review may not be an "honest" review and still be a good thing. It let you know they listened...that someone noticed you're here.
"Reviews" is a topic related to- why you're posting and what you expect from the type of reviewer.
Well anybody posting here probably realizes that most reviews are going to be made by musicians.
Based on musicians being the reviewer I look at reviews simply...
If they had the time to listen and leave a message that's good enough for me and it is appreciated. I understand time is an issue. Any statements made about my music I will read and value it as I understand it.
The only honesty or lack of that I will ever know about pertaining to "reviewing" are the reviews I write.
Just my thought and best wishes to everyone here at Mixposure.
Michael
WHP WROTE:
Now pretend I am a bit of a serious bloke with some real issues about changing things in their songs--perhaps not too keen on mixing or whatever, and I want someone to really listen hard and give feedback. I even asked for it. Sure the acknowledgements are really great-- thank you! Now who can really dig their heels in this for me and help me make my mix better? Who's gonna tell me that there are a couple rough spots in the vox? Come on man, I need this. Oh, I can put the song up for a critique? Okay, great-- where? Who will go there and do this for me? Okay-- that's great!
hey whp, i allways thought that that's what the recording studio forum was for, if anyone really wants that type of advice, honestly! they could just go there and ask for it. that's what i allways do, and if it's somthing that some one there is familiar with, thoes guys allways jump right in! venustudio and thoes guys-as you allready know, are super cool!
peace,
dig
Very good debate this one, reading many of the overnight comments I can see that many people do echo what I've already said about contents and constructive reviewing and of course about actually being qualified to offer that constructive critique.
I do get the the impression that my style of reviewing may be on trial and that maybe people think it's the review for reviews sake. I just checked my stats and it works out for every 10 I do, I get 2 back. I also where possible reply to those that review me by going to their site and reviewing something of their's.
So I've decided to bow out of the reviewing process for a while, and watch how things progress.
all the best
With the new "Review" option with every upload, the artist can choose to have a "subjective" review. However, the review crew will be independent and will focus on what's important. That's not taking away from the artists creativity.
I don't see anyway to standardize a review/comment process. Just as many of us are musicians who create and/or perform music of many different styles, genres and levels of skill, we are all listeners, first and foremost, with our own inherent criteria as we experience the song. I may listen to a song concentrating on the guitar licks, while someone else listens and hears the screaming vocals, the horns, the . . . whatever! And we are all of differing personalities! Those factors will obviously come into play for anyone who writes a review/comment, as well. I'm not adverse to an artist being able to select the level of comment/review they desire, although I feel that we more or less have that now. If you're not into comments/reviews, opt out while posting. If you want some critical review, put it on Center Stage, or maybe a new "Give It To Me, I Can Take" review forum. As far as a crew, I'm not sure how to cover all the different genres at Mix without running into the same complaint that the reviewer has no experience or affinity for this or that genre. I'm more from the "it ain't broke" school, maybe with some option for those that offer their songs up for dissection, as opposed to a simple pat on the back. Myself, I greatly appreciate when someone lets me know that they've listened to one of my tunes. I especially appreciate feedback from a listener that tells me their experience listening to my song, whether positive or negative, because in the end, I write and perform not so I can sit in the dark and hear my music bounce back to me off the wall, but so that others hear it and react to it. In the end, it is that reaction that tells me if the song has made the impact that I intended or if I have missed my mark.
Thanks, Stephan Foster
The Poll is up. The link is on the main page.
i just don't understand the importance of this discussion every couple of months. this is a very simple deal. every one of us have the ability to not have there music reviewed, it is a simple setting right there in the download area that we get to check! easy! if you allow reviews then you should be accepting of whatever anyone has to say about your music as long as the reviewer is not being mean!
{honestly, i have not seen this very often-but it does happen and thoes folkks know who they are, meanies! lol}
for me, i like when folks come by and say{for instance} that's a cool song dig! or what ever-because it tells me that someone is listening!but i don't hold there words so close to the vest that i scrutinnize every word of any review recivied. i'm just not that sensative about the whole deal. lol
i really like the streams, dl, listens charts on my page more, cause that is where i can see if someone is listening, and thats really why i upload my music in the first place, with the hopes that someone is listening. and that is also why i don't charge for my songs, with the hopes that someone enjoys them enough to download them. that's what keeps me writing music, knowing that someone is listening! this is not a storage facillity to me,i have a harddrive for that! it's a place to be heard, and make new friends from around the world. i personaly have no problems with the way things are right now, it seem to be working! why fix somthing that aint broke!
that's just how i see it!
thanks for listening,
dig
Lol Jim, Ummmmmm NO. Mine was the 3rd vote btw
Though I felt the "RC" is a good idea, for those who want it, I was the # 2, NO vote. Why? Because, I will never ask for it. Why? Because.....I know my short comings. I try my best. I get help where I can. I am a hobbyist and if one doesn't like what I produce, as I am, it's OK with me. I am FAR from a perfectionist and I do not seek it. As for Rayon Vert, they beat on me to strive for the best I can do. I do not have anything to do with the production, I cannot speak for them. I only speak for myself. I'm afraid, people may be intimidated to post, if they don't go through the RC. BUT!!! Probably not. I have a BIG Imagination.
I still think the Review Crew will work well, for those who like the idea, so I wish it MUCH Success
Rob
The problem - as an outsider to the process - as I perceive it is everyone is too familial. No one ever renders anything near an honest opinion about tunes for fear of being PC-incorrect. It is a pack of sheep. There is no way to get honest feed-back on what needs to be done to a mix or a tune if everyone is so downright boringly chummy.
Go into a pro studio anywhere in the world and they will be brutally honest, but the tune will exponentially progress.
Criticism is good for the soul if it comes from someone you know or from someone whose opinion you actually value.
If the purpose of this enterprise - which I greatly value and appreciate - is simply to be a family where we come back and lick our wounds collectively then that is one thing. If it something then again to actually help people critically analyze and improve their sound, then I am in. Ptherwise, it is a nice ego-centric diversion with little true purpose.
Maybe you need a PC and a non-PC (a/k/a honest site) so you do not recycle the same "popular" music. [Reminds me of high school but without the BJ's by cheer leaders.]
Check out a simple bet I won with less than $50 expenditure. http://www.nocoastradio.com
We have independently audited listeners from 85 countries - at our peak with our $0.00 budget - we generated 3K listeners a day. We even got by the Chinese censors.
Any way why don't you try brutal honesty like they do in the real world. (I am an IP lawyer by day job.)
BUT, I do love this place!!!
RTB
I'm Fairly new here so just to give a bit of perspective from someone sorta looking in from the outside i'll give a little bit of my perception.
First of all I'm a self taught electronic musician, so you definitely won't be getting detailed reviews from me. But with me it's very simple, I either like what I hear or I don't! If I can relate to any part of the song i will leave a short comment to let that artist know that i appreciate what they have put together, if not then i don't leave anything. And I guarantee you'll find something technically or structurally taboo in anything I post here track-wise, but thats the beauty of it. I write things that hold a personal significance to me, and hopefully others enjoy it, if not thats fine too.
On the other hand...I realize that this site is filled with people far more experienced and knowledgeable than myself. I view this as a resource not a threat. I certainly enjoy constructive criticism when approached the right way. I would say posting publicly would be a bit much..but most certainly can appreciate a private note or posting that would make the piece better (of course there's always the off chance that I did some weird or crazy sound intentionally! :0D)
I have really enjoyed my time here so far and have met some really great people. I have gotten some great feedback and advice ( some positive and some constructive) done in a very professional and respectful way which is very encouraging. I have really enjoyed the radio broadcast and found some outstanding music to listen to! I think alot of you guys are on the right track with either splitting things up into comments and private reviews that the artist can choose to display or not or even a special category to be reviewed on a little bit of a tougher level by a panel,in my mind it will have same affect as along it is used properly.
But all in all Don't we all make music that us ourselves would like to hear? Isn't that why you do it? It most definitely is for me. It comes down to opinion and taste and mine is certainly eclectic. Feedback or not if I believe something i've composed serves the purpose I intended to, then nothing said in a review is gonna bother me period! lol
Thanks for listening!
Lindsey
See, why can't everyone who won't use the Review Crew come up with a statement like Farrell's? He's not questioning, nor discussing issues - he knows he won't use it. This was a very simple, honest and mature post of yours, Farrell, and I thank you for that.
Brian - please don't throw in the towel - yet. In many ways, Mixposure needs you mate. In many ways your constructive points of view are highly appreciated, always have been. I think you are a fixture, a pillar even, of this community; perhaps you don't even realize that. I for myself have nothing but admiration toward your ideals and your music. So stick around, will ya?
Heinz.
I hit enter before I'd intended to. So, here's the rest
Even more sadly, I couldn't be bothered reading what had gone before my post.
I was part of the initial debate, that Nigel raised in the forum. For those with an interest in history, there is a thread in the forum which has a title such as "Nigel and Brian's hot picks" or something similar. It was a hangover from the old mixposure that people are sick of hearing about.
But, the thrust of the thread was supporting other artists. There was one rule - no "self promotion". It was designed to give a "heads up" to those songs that people heard that they thought others should give a listen to, because Nigel and I, and anyone else that was interested in getting involved, thought they were good.
In a short space of time I lost interest in the site. RWK, Mike K, Nigel, Kephas and a couple of others posted but it was clear the majority of the site couldn't give a rat's.
Everyone was chasing that spot on the front page. I noted today that the review section of the front page contains two reviews by an artist of his own songs.
There are a lot of people here that I really like and admire. And to make it clear, as it obviously isn't, ROB GRANT you are one of them. I've never criticised you personally for a review that you've given. I don't want to tell people how they review. But Rob, not everyone has your ethos and love of music. There are people out there prepared to self promote no matter what damage they do to the site that they self promote on.
Have a trawl through the list of artists who have joined this site and who have disappeared. Feel free, if you like to think that they're people who just want to "park their music" and disappear. Then check a few other omd's and find the same artists there. Sure, some will fit into that category. But there are a lot of others, in which I include myself who are looking for somewhere where they can find similar people with an interst in indie music that they can connect with. Where they can confidently say to someone they respect, and say with respect "Hey.....(insert name), great track, but why's the guitar so far in the back of the mix", "sorry mate, there's a pitch issue at 2:45 with your vocals, but it's easily fixed".
There is a sense in here that if the slightest criticism is raised the sky will start to fall. Timing, pitch and other issues slip by and everything's praised.
If the site wants to attract "non-muso" listeners those things need to be addressed.
I find it sad that in the time I've been on here I've made lots of music friends with people that I don't see in here any more, or very rarely. Hence my lack of participation.
Here endeth the sermon.
Cheers
Brian
Sadly, I don't care. I did some months ago.
Cheers
Brian